Masculine Pride

[Leslie]

My husband told me about how it is to be a man today. We were walking back from the local park and a young family was out for a bike ride, husband, wife and children. Dad was in front leading his family and went off in one direction. A while later the family appeared coming back from where they had gone, looking lost. Dad was still out in front, looking a little more stern, but still giving the appearance he was in control of the situation.

My husband said, that's how it is. You can't let on you don't know where you are...the fear is that if you do, nobody will follow you anymore.

Of course, his wife and kid know he's lost and love him anyway. They might like him to stop and ask for help, but they won't take off without him.

What is your experience, ladies and gentlemen?

[Greg]

I certainly know this one Leslie, though I am not sure I would categorize it as masculine pride.

I remember driving around in circles through several LA freeway interchanges, my wife holding a map, upside down trying to make some sense. Bless her heart, she was trying. She said just pull off and we'll ask someone. My response was, "I'm not lost if you could only read a map!"

Over the years she learned how to read a map well and I learned to stop and ask directions [most of the time]. That bit me in the butt one time in Mexico. Totally lost in Aguascalientes I spotted two poliemen on the opposite corner. I made a turn and stopped to ask them directions to the highway out of town. They were very polite, complimented my beautiful espousa and hija, and gave directions, and oh by the way, you made an illegal left hand turn...pointing to the sign. $20 took care of it, though we couldn't consider that a bride, for then I would have been guilty of a more expensive infraction. We called it propina [a tip]. The directions were useless.

This tendency to be cock sure of direction goes much deeper than mere pride, it is subhuman, something about the great hunter who can never get lost or he does not provide for his family-tribe. We would not call the tenacity of a salmon fighting their way upstream pride, now would we?

That said, if that primal urge is challenged everything from pride to anger to stupidity can emerge. I have been guilty on all counts.

On the other hand I have seen it work in reverse, keeping my mouth shut as my female companion so sure of herself says this is the way, I know damn well it is not. Speaking out after a few blocks to no avail I conclude this is retribution as I witness maybe what you can refer to as female pride. We did turn around and retrace our footsteps. All was good since she found a great little store in which to shop by the misdirection.

I love these differences, men are men, women are women. I believe it is our vulnerability in these areas that make us endearing as men. If we can be honest.

G

[fivebells]

This has never made any sense to me. Even if I think I can find what I'm looking for independently, I will ask for help if I think it will save time. People generally like to help. I have never perceived any negative impact on my friends' perceptions of me as a result of this behavior, but it's possible I just haven't been sensitive to it.

[Bill Gardner]

A very common problem! I see this in some men; I hope I've gotten past it.

Leadership is an incredibly important skill, and effective leadership is always in short supply. The problem is, many 'leaders' don't view leadership as a service. People should be following you because of what they get back from your leadership. Schedules get met, meetings are brief, involve all participants, and result in decisions; and these decisions are effectively communicated and enforced. Good morale is a matter of effective organizational process, which requires an effective, engaged leader, and denying that you are lost when you are lost is bad process. Insisting that others support your ego is even worse.

I don't think good process has a gender, but I do think there are male and female styles of bad process; your example captures a common masculine style.

[Janet]

I think this characteristic is far broader than a male trait, this discomfort about acknowledging our ignorance and vulnerability. I see it in myself. I also see your husband's point about it playing a role in the indoctrination of many men. It seems to result in the suppression of emotions -- and is a source of a lot of suffering.

My husband acknowledges being uncomfortable with admitting "I don't know where we are" and that he doesn't fully understand the electrical and plumbing systems operating in our house. When he is aware of and expresses this discomfort, there is no problem, but when there is no awareness, rigidity and anger comes up to hide the discomfort. Something rather primal there, like "I must know everything about everything, or else I am not a worthy human being."

But I have the same tendency, just not trigged by maps or plumbing. My particular trigger is working with computer technology. My husband is a total geek, and I hate acknowledging to him that I am stuck and can use some help with a tech problem. On one level I feel silly -- I know not knowing is no big deal. But on another level, I feel terrified when I get to a place that makes absolutely no sense to me. It isn't fear that he won't help or want to help -- I know he would. It's aversion to the ignorance in me, Some ancient pattern is triggered in me which says "must know, must always know."

Ignorance, pride and shame hinders many of us from operating clearly. Fivebells is correct -- when others ask for information or assistance, it doesn't diminish our perception of them. Yet some of us persist in our ancient patterns. It isn't rational. So we practice.

[Rob MacLachlan]

Alas, this masculine herd leader failed to encounter an insentient robot dually revealing his emotional reactivity, and the way back to his car :-)

[Tardy Eye of Common Courtesy]

Our family all pitched in and bought a GPS for Grampa for his 88th birthday last year . He just loves it, it tells him exactly how to get to where he wants to go, when no one else ever could . I admit my sense of direction is not as good as my husbands, he will plan a trip out before hand, look at the map and figure out the best route and stick to the plan. I will figure it out as I go, I use my intuition a lot more, and also stop and ask people who look like they know for directions if I get lost .I have a different attitude towards failure, I think I have more patience when things go wrong . It's OK to make a mistake as long as I can fix it. A little experience helps when learning to read a map . Some of my female friends have difficulty with the North/ South, East/West concept as a way to describe where one is and how to get from A to B not sure why. Different styles of thinking at play... I also noticed that my son & son in law will turn a destination into a game, a challenge to see who can find the fasted route and get there first. Are we there yet?

[Katinka Hesselink]

My dad insists on going everywhere by the quickest route possible. The one with the least traffic lights. I just prefer the route that requires the least amount of thinking. They did research on this - it turned out women could find out where to go just as well as men could - but they used very different methods, and the women were usually slower about it. Just not as ambitious?

[Loren Enders]

Same with my dad. He also times the lights: if he needs to travel at 32 mph to make them all he will, if 45 mph then so be it. He claims that it saves gas and the brakes... but he sure does put a lot of thought into his strategy.